A VC - Latest Comments in Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Michael_Josefowicz — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:08:59 -0000

I apologize for not reading the comments before I posted. Very nice discussion. Most especially if the VC take a look at education through some different lenses.

Anyway I have three more cents:
1. The efficiencies of online learning are already close to tipping. The trick is that the educational institutions don't want to share the added value created with faculty, students and parents. The price of higher ed is unsustainable. Congress and the market are both going to go after it.

2, The issue is not "the kids need to see an actual connection between the things they study and their applications in the real world". Kids live in a very real world today. It's about learning, fun, adventure or a million other things. They are naturally learning machines. It's "a get out of the way, nurture what is already there" problem. A lot less will produce a lot more.

3. The textbook industry is a very ripe low hanging fruit that may be attacked by the remnants of the newspaper industry or more likely the Crowd in the Cloud.
Consider using the long tail of newspaper content in customized readers to be sold in place of textbooks. The print tech is in place. The Cloud is in place. The newspapers are looking for a life line. Imagine the NYTimes taking on the big three textbook publishers.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Michael_Josefowicz — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:55:15 -0000

Haven't read the book yet, but my 2 cents.. . .

One problem is that few of our teachers have the passion for science and engineering. Since education is primarily the human version of "monkey see, monkey do" it shouldn't be surprising that the kids can't connect with their passion.

it would be interesting to sample the attitude of the "formal education" system about video games. In NYC the kids have to leave their cell phones at the door, upon pain of going to the principal's office. And of course, unrestricted, un password protected access to the internet is strictly verbotin!

It seems like a big problem, but IMHO, it's merely getting obstacles out of the way. Instead of doing the same thing again and again and blaming the kids.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Tom Royce — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:33:36 -0000

FarazQ

Thanks for the recommendation. He is a typically bored underachieving young boy who tends to rise to any challenge that he is interested in. This seems like just the place! Thanks for the help. --- Tom

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

FarazQ — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:40:03 -0000

That's fantastic. Good for them and their generation.

I'm looking forward to reading Disrupting Class.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

aac74 — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:05:42 -0000

this is my serious games site:

http://seriousgames.ning.com/

lots of people in the UK and France working in this area

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

fredwilson — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 04:40:09 -0000

My kids look up to zuckerberg and jobs as much as any movie star or model. I think that bodes well for their generation

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

fredwilson — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 02:55:08 -0000

That is good advice Brian

I¹ve tried to do the same with statistics

Again, I find it easier with my son. His love of sports feeds the statistics
nerve perfectly

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

FarazQ — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:37:19 -0000

He may be a bit young for this, but you might want to give Alice.org a try. It teaches kids programming concepts in a fun visual 3D environment. I believe its aimed towards high school/early college kids...and was the brainchild of Randy Pausch (CMU professor, last lecture). I just checked the site...it looks like they have a product aimed towards middle school girls (what a great idea!)

On another note, in addition to economic another important reason Asian cultures have pushed science/engineering is culture/status. Engineers are highly respected (sometimes more than doctors). Unfortunately, culture is going to be the toughest to change. As an optimist, I say yes we can...but we can't afford to wait till we hit bottom.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Neil — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:36:57 -0000

One of the themes in the comments here that how kids learn is as important as what kids learn. The industrial-era, top-down approach to knowledge dissemination should be replaced by an environment of knowledge co-creation. Kids need to work together to learn, since that's how they will be working. Integrated product development teams rely on cooperation, flexibility, and sharing to get things done. Teams can include specialists, but generalists with diverse talents and skills are fantastic inventors. Educational environments that include project-based learning, open platforms for collaboration with learners inside and outside the school should be encouraged, but administration is terrified of ending up on some CNN fear-mongering report.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Harry Hirschman — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 12:07:45 -0000

Fred, There are more fundamental problems with our educational system, of which what you identified is a symptom. Many future engineers and scientists are weeded out (somewhat arbitrarily) VERY early in their school years because they do not bloom early enough to be selected for gifted or advanced programs. Some of this is as arbitrary as having a birthday late in the academic year which results in the older students in a classroom appearing to be smarter when all they really are is older. This creates a cycle where some students get more and higher quality instruction, further magnifying the gap. The effect is enduring.

If you believe Malcolm Gladwell's new book "Outliers", and I do, then we are limiting our country's success by preventing the talent of many, many school children from being realized. http://www.amazon.com/Outli...

Harry

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

BillSeitz — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:58:47 -0000

I just found this article about Kongregate Labs setting up tutorials for building Flash games.
http://arstechnica.com/news...

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Tom Royce — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 07:46:29 -0000

Thanks Bill, I will look into it.

I had a talk with my son yesterday about learning to program. He gave the typical non-committal, Dad get lost answer. Then I steered it to learning to make video games and his interest perked up.

What a nice carrot to lead the boy to a learning opportunity. Thanks Fred for the idea!

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

joel_liu — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:31:52 -0000

I hope to read the book one day, but I am not sure whether it's a good thing to motivate kids to learn science and engineering for economic reasons like in India and China. As far as I know, many kids in China flock to some hot subjects for economic reasons, EE&CS for example. However, when they are in college, many of them find those subjects are not what they like and don't know what their passions are. It will waste a lot of time for these kids.

How to help kids find their passions may be more important than how to motivate them through economic reasons in both developed and developing countries.
My two cents.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Keenan — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:19:01 -0000

I am reading "Outliers" by Malcom Gladwell. He discusses this topic in the book. One of his premises is the rice growing cultures have a greater understanding and commitment of "hardwork" than those that don't. This culture of hardwork manifests itself in school work. The book provides unique data that suggests performance in school is influenced by a things such as environment, timing, when you were born, all of which may have little or nothing to do with the student. The KIPP Academy is used to illistrate his point.

A good read, I recommend it in conjunction with the book you're reading now. I'd be interested in your thoughts and comparisons of both.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

joel_liu — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:27:24 -0000

"the kids need to see an actual connection between the things they study and their applications in the real world"

I second it.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Bill — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:39:48 -0000

Having taught high school and some college for 39 years, I've seen a lot of change in students and their attitudes. In short, I've seen a school system based on the industrial model of the early to mid 20th century that assumed that the teacher was the transmitter of culture/information. Contrast that with the fact that students today have all of the information necessary for any subject and that calls into question what is the role of the teacher in the 21st century? There has been a disconnect. In order to get our kids back into a learning mode, we must tap their passion and guide them along their path. I could go on and on but this in a nut shell is the educational problem.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

BillSeitz — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:10:27 -0000

Scratch has some pretty nice intro materials that help you start doing some really simple stuff.
http://info.scratch.mit.edu...

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Chris Dodge — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:57:12 -0000

That's terrific. When he feels comfortable enough, I'd strongly recommend that he tries out a more structured web language such as ASP.NET or JSP which will introduce him to a wider set of object-oriented design principals.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Brian — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:57:30 -0000

Great comment!

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Brian — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:56:19 -0000

I agree with Bill.

I hated math until I went to college and needed to understand math for my economics classes. Relate math to something they really like.

That is what I am trying to do with both my kids to avoid the mistakes I made as a high school student.

I also think teaching kids about money helps to teach them about math. It amazes me how few people really understand money basics like compound interest.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

Tom Royce — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:49:42 -0000

Here is a question that I would love an answer to.

Is there a site, template, program that I can use to help my son learn to program in? I have some skills but less time to sit with him, and having a 3rd party between a son and father during learning time keeps the testosterone down for both of us. I can be the adjunct but not the primary instructor with him.

He is 12 also and interested in computers. I love the angle of him developing a computer game on his own.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

fredwilson — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:32:17 -0000

I love the david wiley presentation

It¹s great

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

fredwilson — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:30:09 -0000

Michael I am delighted that you made the time to stop by and leave a
comment in this discussion. Thanks for the book. I am really enjoying it.

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

fredwilson — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:22:20 -0000

I wish I knew the answer to this tom

Re: Disrupting Class and Playing Games

tywhite — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:57:13 -0000

The issue isn't quite as simple as being motivated to study tougher subjects for economic reasons: the kids need to see an actual connection between the things they study and their applications in the real world. My biggest issue with the academic system presently is the disconnect between what's being taught and the real world (perhaps because too few teachers come from other careers before teaching?).

If you haven't seen it, David Wiley did a nice presentation on why higher education stands to be disrupted by openness: http://www.slideshare.net/o...