A VC - Latest Comments in Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Geoff Judge — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:20:47 -0000

Of course there should be more debates. The ability to give great speeches doesn't translate to being effective in gov't. Both candidates need to be grilled on what they've accomplished. The NY Times story on 2/3 on Obama's ineffectiveness at passing legislation in the Congress was very enlightening. Nuclear Leaks and Response Tested Obama in Senate

http://www.nytimes.com/2008...

While many of us like what we hear from Obama to date, he has accomplished very little on the national stage. For the past 7 years we've had a president that had accomplished very little prior to his presidency. Best to not repeat this mistake. I for one am looking for more substance come this November. That is why I am supporting Hillary.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

bernardlunn — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:53:20 -0000

i think the tv debates are a lousy way to understand the candidates. i like candidates@google - enough time and smart questions. obama, mcain and bloomberg all shone in this format. thanks for the lessig video, very articulate and i agree.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

fnazeeri — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:40:36 -0000

Cynical for Obama is what Hillary calls experience.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

fnazeeri — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:19:36 -0000

Money is like delegates...it's relative.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

jason — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:48:05 -0000

In his piece on You Tube Lessig argues that Obama is way ahead of Hillary in tech policy http://tinyurl.com/2wud8m. I know the LA Times endorsed Obama largely on those grounds as well...

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

fredwilson — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 13:33:02 -0000

I think he's stronger but I haven't dug into his positions on things like
net neutrality, copyright, H1 visas, etc

fred

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

jason — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 11:10:49 -0000

Fred, many think Obama is stronger on tech policy than Hillary-- do you agree? To me that's a number 1 policy issue.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

stone — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:39:39 -0000

Exactly what I mean when I talk about Obama's lack of substance equals lack of experience. They are one in the same to me when it comes to politicians. You can best judge them when youvre seen them in action for some period of time. This is precisely why McCain is in the lead right now and why Romney is not. Romney is unknown. Romney tried to act like a conservative. I think the republican electorate just said with their votes: go prove over the next 4-8 years that you are a great conservative and we'll save a spot for you down the line.

The least well known of all the candidates is Obama. I even knew of Mike Huckabee long before his run for the presidency because of him amazing weight loss and because of his approach to fitness in his state --- I was impressed by him. As for Hillary, i've always been impressed by her intellect and discipline. I don't think she's a particularly nice person but i'm quite sure that she's very capable.

Now we get to Obama. His web site and positions are meaningless at this stage because shit happens and stuff will change. How will he react? His experience is so thin that it's almost comical. Are people really peddling his state representative stint as experience? If so, save the jokes for your friends and relatives. This is the real world. He has *zero* experience. What does he have? Good, solid liberal positions. His position on the war has a real constituency. He gives a great speech. He uses 'inclusive' language. Does he have a choice? I don't think so.

Anyway, as I said many times, this is a great country with lots of amazing people. I'm almost always proud of who we elect. George Bush has been terrible. Clinton's "Monica" issue was also terrible. We can do better. And, I think experience does matter which is why I'm supporting McCain. Obama has no credentials --- that's just a fact. He hasn't done great things in the private sector. He hasn't done great things in the public sector. He hasn't done anything as Senator aside from running for president. Strip away his Harvard degree and I doubt we'd know Mr. Obama today. Facts sometimes hurt.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

DaienS — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:47:37 -0000

I'm commenting late, but...
I agree with your assessment that Obama needs to show more substance if he is going to pull Dem voters in November. Southern Democrats(notoriously conservative) will favor McCain.
I will be voting for Hillary in the primaries mainly because I do believe she is the better candidate; I came of age in the Clinton years and remember prosperity and good relations-going abroad now is nothing like it was then. I remember starting on stock trading at the age of 19 in 1997, and just how amazed I was at the results; social responsibility was brimming at the local levels; being cheered and greeted generously as an American-abroad, and I'm amazed at how a few bad things could overshadow so much positive.
Obama bothers me as aside from substance, he lacks experience(which probably lends to his lack of substance), drastically. If he had shown more initiative to show his own voice in his brief, brief Senate career I might think differently. I explained the latter to a younger cousin like this: It's like enjoying running, but not wanting to do anything else in P.E. class(bear with me, she's 12 lol). So you participate on the days when you can run, but when Dodgeball or Field Hockey is on the day's agenda you just raise your hand for roll call and take a failing grade for the day by sitting out of the class participation. Given that, Obama is failing gym class.
(oh, his Farrakhan connection doesn't sit well either...)

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

alexander — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:02:35 -0000

You can't have a debate when they both agree on every issue.

Their solution to every problem is more government intervention (i.e. soft fascism), which is the root of the problem.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

sajayo — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:44:16 -0000

I've read Obama used "Yes, we can!" in his 2004 senate campaign. That's before Patrick, of course.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

stone — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:54:40 -0000

I notice that no Obama supporter ever wants to tackle the substance issue. It's ok to vote for someone because you like their personality. It's ok to vote against someone because you don't. What I dislike is the rationalization that takes place in order to justify your vote. Just say that you're very liberal and Obama's very liberal and that's why you're voting for him and stop trying to rationalize his experience because he has an *unremarkable* background.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

RG — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:37:04 -0000

Full disclosure: I am an Obama supporter and voted for him in the NY primary

Obama sees his lesser "brand recognition" of sorts as his main weakness to Hillary Clintons widely recognized name (albeit for better or worse).

To this end, he is making a concerted effort to maximize his time spent with voters in the states where primary voting is imminent. Hillary's reasons are twofold. 1) she is clearly strapped for cash now with sr. advisors having to work without pay, etc., but more importantly 2) Hillary's team feels like she really performs well in debates and comes across as a stronger leader who knows how to get the country back on track (their words, not mine).

With the next few primary states, Obama clearly has the momentum having pulled off an effective "tie" with pledged delegates in Super Tuesday and his po. Obama's camp thinks its a smarter move for him to focus on getting his message out there to voters in specific primary states Vs playing to a national cable audience of 9mm (best case scenario) viewers (less than 200k viewers in each state on avg).

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Farid — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:20:59 -0000

"t's an American Idol contest now."

Absofreakinglutely!

Wat bugs me is that Fred doesn't say it as it is: I am a money maniuplator and- -> I <-- would be better off with a corportist Clinton or Obama.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Luke Archer — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:25:33 -0000

Fred let's not forgetten that politicians NEVER follow throgh on what they promise during their campaigns...remeber all those promises from Bush? From where I am sitting, I can't morally vote for Hilary. She is just as evil as Bush and Cheney. She feeds on the norm- i.e. special interest money and war as a policy. Violence escelates violence. We are worse off now because of her voting record and will be worse off if she is elected president. Yes, we had economic prosperity when the other Clinton was in the whitehouse, but it was built on a fantasy and hype about the internet and technology. Meanwhile American jobs are shipped over seas, China (A COMMUNIST COUNTRY) is now the leading economic power, the constitutional principles that I believe in are being stomped on, and we are moving closer and closer to a one world government where the elite rule and everyone else are stooges. I think you would understand my view point a lot better if like many Americans you were living month to month knowing that any upset in the economy means welfare or complete economic ruin. We need change. We need to return to the principles this country was founded apon. We need to empower the individual and reclaim our government.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

fredwilson — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 10:20:02 -0000

I have learned more from reading the comments to my political posts than anywhere else this year

I want to thank everyone for spending the time to educate me and everyone else

Fred

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Hockeydino — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:45:00 -0000

Neither one has showed any susbtance, and neither one can provide this country on the right track. More debates from these two would be a complete waste of time.

It's an American Idol contest now.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

outdoor1s — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:17:12 -0000

Extending my comments now that I've read your full post. Those who are voting on "the issues" or on "the substance" are, to my mind, missing an essential point about presidential politics. Are issues and positions important? Of course. But the absolutely wrong way -- in my humble opinion -- to select a President is to focus on policy. If I were voting for Chief Political Science Professor Hillary Clinton possibly would get my vote. But we are electing a Chief EXECUTIVE. The qualities we want (the qualities we NEED) in a chief executive extend well beyond policy. For me, I want a President who can paint a picture for the American people of the world he wants them to live in and has a plausible program for taking us there; a program communicated simply and clearly that resonates with ALL. That's why, as much as I disagreed with many of his policies -- and I'm arguing against myself to some extent here because I did not vote for him -- I think that Ronald Reagan exemplified the qualities we want in a President to a greater degree than any other President since Kennedy. I think Bill Clinton did a very good job, but for him it was more power of personality and charisma than articulation of vision.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

outdoor1s — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:04:55 -0000

Debates have a certain appeal as theater and continue to serve as a valuable mechanism for forcing the candidates to address issues they may otherwise not address completely or honestly as part of their standard campaign process. But Barack is right -- there have been 18 debates so far and there certainly will be more but in some sense debates are so passe. In the Nixon-Kennedy campaign the debates were determinative of the outcome, no doubt. In each succeeding campaign they have declined in value.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Yb927 — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:01:53 -0000

Fred-
I agree that substance is the issue. It's easy to get swept away by the tidal wave of enthusiasm that Obama's candidacy has created. But much of it is a result of a media build up that seems like a self fulfilling prophecy. He definitely has charisma, but does he have depth. Two things stand out to me as bothersome: obama seems to never give a big speech without teleprompters and two. in the one on one interviews that I have seen him give - away from the crowds and the teleprompters - he has been very light on the ability to argue points with substantive detail off the top of his head. All that gives me the feel that we are looking at something slightly manufactured and that scares me. The last thing we want in the White House is a person without substance and depth of knowledge who even as intelligent, impressive and charismatic as he is, would have to learn on the job. Anyone who has ever run anything in their life knows that there is NOTHING like experience. And if experience doesn't dampen enthusiasm (as it seems to not have with Hillary) than I vote for experience over charisma, substance over style any day. When the hype will subside. There is a going to be some very difficult work to do and decisions to make. I think you made a wise choice on election day.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Yb927 — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:49:03 -0000

Obviously she has with $7 m raised in about 48 hours.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Scott — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:41:22 -0000

I am in TOTAL agreement with the writer of article "Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating" ... I think the reason he doesn't like to debate is that in fact he doesn't really have anything behind all the speeches he gives.... I can even point out a few tidbits where he's contradicted himself on his own "plans for the future". Such as mispeaking about his health care initiative. He clearly has no clue as to what he is going to do once he gets there. He's only driven on getting there at this point in time. I am sort of curious with all the "CHANGE" he preaches in his speeches as to why he hasn't initated much if not any legislation in the past, almost 4, Senate years. I understand while the Democrats have been up against the GOP, he could still put himself out there and put a bill, or two, toward his vision of change on the table. I think he is afraid of debating, and it has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton... although she is much more prepared during the debates and I think it makes him look a little silly at times. Maybe there's your answer as to why he doesn't want to debate! He has nothing to debate but ideas from his speeches!

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

siberia9 — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:27:30 -0000

oh right - which is why he just said he would do 2 more? my god, it's thursday - 2 days after super tuesday. and they have months ahead. hillary was pressing for something that was going to happen anyway. she was just trying to show how tough she could be while getting more free airtime.

how is she smarter? how is she better?

do you not remember Travelgate? or how she urged bill to sign NAFTA for political expediency (to palliate a Republican Congress) - NAFTA which helped establish the exportation of jobs? or how she voted for war *without* reading the NIE? and how she whipped up support for the war on the Senate floor even though she didn't read the NIE? or how she recently called Iran's national army a terrorist organization - widely viewed as a pugnacious, warlike stance towards Iran and roundly denounced by many Democrats? or how she backed off of immigration reform when she realized the Governor of NY was getting a lot of heat and she didn't want that kind of heat to spillover to her while she was preparing for a presidential campaign?

Not to mention - on moral grounds - the Clintons' use of race as a divisive strategy within the Democratic party last month;
and the fact that she backed out of her own pledge to the Democratic party and to her opponents by attempting to change the rules re: delegates for MI and FL?

my god. if that's what "smart" and "better" is... then I don't want it.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

siberia9 — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:17:25 -0000

Update: http://www.politico.com/blo...

As I called it, Obama's going to do 2 more debates.
I don't think he ever expected not to do any. He's not a bad debater and he's begun to improve with each debate. He wouldn't reject the opportunity to do a debate out of fear of tarnishing his image.

But again, I'm wary of people gathering their info about a candidate from debates (as I wrote in a long comment earlier today). As I always say, an informed voter reads reads reads - and from every source imaginable. And they need to go back and do archival research. No source is truly credible -- objectivity about a candidate comes from an average estimate of all the stuff you've read over time.

Debates, especially the ones lately, are pretty canned - with a few exceptions, there really aren't any surprises, especially in terms of policy. We all ought to know by now that issues aren't really the issue.

You want someone who knows how to lead; you also want someone who will *win* against McCain.

It's really hard for me to believe that the Republican party and Independents + some moderate, disgruntled Democrats won't ban together and vote for McCain if Hillary runs. They truly don't like her. And they don't like what the Clintons brought into the White House. A number of polls and articles from both wings of the political spectrum have pointed this out.

The only way Hillary can win - and even then the chance is so slight - is if the economy tanks so bad that more scores of people become homeless and jobless.

And I think we would have to be really heartless to have to wish for that to happen... especially when we have Obama, who is every bit as knowledgable and experienced (let's not forget his 8+ years of being in elected office, unlike Hillary who's only been in the Senate for what 2-3 years? - or his years spent as a community organizer - evidenced by his well-organized campaign, or his work as a constitutional law professor and civil rights lawyer). Moreover, he actually inspires people to become active in the political process while appealing to Independents and moderate Republicans.

Why are people balking at this guy? He's certainly not dirtier than the Clintons in terms of politicking and he's actually worked to clean politics up. He's well-known for his skill as a politician. He's got a civil rights lawyer's mind for details and strategy when it comes to litigation. Plus, he can fight hard, even against Clinton swiftboating tactics. And he hopes to bring people out of political apathy.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think he's God. He's made mistakes certainly - but more than Hillary and Bill? The Clintons have more dirt on them than a mudpit. And the Republicans will use it all so that Hillary won't get elected.

He's got the best chance to win against McCain now that Edwards is gone. Why aren't people getting that? I'm truly puzzled about this.

Re: Please Barack - Don't Stop Debating

Guest — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:04:05 -0000

:))) Fred, this is professional deformation, my friend. Not every voter feels a need to do exhaustive due dilligence. For some it is enough to see that a person is smart, honest and independent to trust them that he/she would make the right decisions when needed.
I myself am torn here. On one hand I see nothing wrong with flushing down as much as possible about the candid
ates, full transperency is very important. On the other hand, you know, the issues change. Hillary may be better prepared to debate the issues that are current now, (by outworking him, for example), but does that guarantee that when new issues arise she will have the right answer? He has shown better judgement in the past...