A VC - Latest Comments in Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

fredwilson — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:04:02 -0000

You are so right. Thanks for pointing that out to me

Fred

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

VampireWeekendSux — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:34:59 -0000

fyi, Arring handed your dick to you. which is kind of doubly lame considering how big a d-bag he is.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

howardlindzon — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:36:53 -0000

You can tell mike is a lawyer the way he defends his staff with words here. in the ned he gained more publicity than fred did. Duncan riley is the furthest thing from a journalist on the blogosphere so mixing what mike calls old media journalists with that does not help.

You buy $2,000 DVD player and $4 speakers and you have a $4 stereo.

TechCrunch is a gossip site with occasional news since 2007.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

paul — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:03:23 -0000

Arrington says's your conflicted, next Roger Clements will be calling you a lier.

The best bloggers blog about what they do, journalists are full time writers.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

fredwilson — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:16:04 -0000

The beauty of blogging is we don't need that. If there are enough interested
parties, and in the comments you'll see most of the interested parties
weighing in, then you'll get to the truth eventually

fred

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

fredwilson — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:16:04 -0000

Good point jeff and I agree on the latter point 100pcnt

I do give away all the blog revenue to charity

Fred

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

fredwilson — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:16:04 -0000

Mike

You are wrong about my intentions.

I wanted to make a point and picked two posts that got my attention

They got my attention because I had a connection to them

fred

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

fredwilson — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:16:03 -0000

Well I'll take the blame for that. I'm sorry. But maybe they hurt the
reputation of two fine companies with their posts too.

We all have responsibilities don't we

fred

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Paul Higgins — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:03:06 -0000

I think that these things will sort themselves out in the long run. Part o the reason that places like the NY Times and others have cache is reputation. People who write well and research well will gain a long term reputation and social networks and other systems will weed out the poor performers. An interesting conversation but ultimately nothing to be done

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

jnolan — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:55:44 -0000

"So I'll just call the bloggers who are making money doing this full time 'professionals' and people like me 'amateurs'."

That distinction may be hard to defend considering you are running banner ads, FM and Google, in your sidebar and use your blog to promote and enhance the value of your investments, which is just another way of saying you have a degree of economic incentive not directly dependent on advertising alone.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Harold — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:13:48 -0000

Right, because the comments section of TechCrunch is a real bastion of intellectual discourse.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Harold — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:12:20 -0000

It just shows that one of the major strengths of mainstream media is not the actual journalists, but the infrastructure around them. Without an editor or even a newsroom, you don't have the ability to show something to someone and say "does this make sense", or "anyone got any good info on this competitor to the firm I'm writing about"?

Journalism and blogging have their strengths and weaknesses, but to pretend that just because it's the same guy it's the same thing is disingenuous.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Steve Deadalus — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:14:20 -0000

i don't think you have anything to apologize for. i'll let you speak in your own defense but i found your note to be a call to arms for everyone to raise the level of their game, so to speak. that's why it was so regrettable - albeit predictable - to see arrington's wild and ridiculous personal attacks against you. but don't pay attention. he's less & less relevant to the conversation.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Vijay Veerachandran — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:45:20 -0000

Conversation is what blog alive and personal. Fred, It would have been worth wile to make a call as Eric did when you write about them. They did their research before gong public anyway.

Michael, you are too aggressive, Fred is an amazing person to talk to and at least for us in NY we look up to him t learn a lot. ;-)

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Ian Betteridge — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:31:11 -0000

Yes Mike, I did. I don't think that Fred's criticism was totally correct. However, the way to respond to to it isn't for you to lash out - it's for you (or better yet, the journalists involved) to talk about why they thought their story stands. All I'm seeing from you is claims that Fred "crossed the line" (what line?) and claims that he's just biased.

Join the conversation, Mike - stop trying to shout people down.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

JoeDuck — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 03:54:29 -0000

bloggers who are making money doing this full time 'professionals' and people like me 'amateurs'

Fred don't jump backwards too far here from the important point you were making about high blog expectations. A key Blogging virtue is that it tends to be somewhat agnostic with distinctions about expertise or authority as well as legacy credentials. This isn't always a good thing, but on balance this serves the community well. Credibility is earned rather than annointed by authorities or some notion of "professional" vs amateur.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Don Jones — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:52:47 -0000

I wasn't trying to get your attention or angle for a TC write-up...just participating in the debate at face value. With VentureDeal, I'm interested in the veracity and quality of information, disclosing sources and the reputation of those sources among other things, so Fred's post caused me to spend more time on it.

I'm watching your CrunchBase efforts with some interest. The same issues of trust, curation and sources of information apply to your efforts to create an "open" database...

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Preston — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:44:09 -0000

You can't call yourself an amateur just because you donate your earnings. You've been doing this since at least September 2003.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

James — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:10:47 -0000

Good point...a whole nother world you guys are in. ;)

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

michael arrington — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:09:00 -0000

Don - if this is really just about us writing about venturedeal, all you have to do is ask.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

michael arrington — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 02:08:21 -0000

but if we didn't blog it, would we even exist? :-)

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

James — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:45:41 -0000

Why don't you guys pick up the phone and work it out. Why does everything have to be on Twitter or a blog post for everyone to see. It makes you all look pretty bad IMO. I can promise you that 99% of TechCrunch readers probably could care less about what Fred Wilson wrote. It's an opinion and nothing more, hell it could change tomorrow. Leave the sticks and stones on the playground guys, you are supposed to be adults. And no one really cares....really.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

John Lynn — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 00:46:24 -0000

I agree with you that this is the power and the nature of blogging. I created a post on my blog that was publicizing a friend's blog and making harsh suggestions on what he could do better. I did it all tongue and cheek and my main reason for doing it on my blog was to promote his site and share the internet's currency: links with him.

Turns out I caused quite the stir with my harsh commentary. I would have done it a bit different next time, but I was surprised how sensitive he was.

I thought your comments were very interesting and not condescending to Erick at all. I had read Erick's post before I read yours and appreciated a second point of view on his post. If anything I think that the bloggers you pointed out will think twice about the points you've made and ensure they've gotten as much information as possible before posting.

Thanks for bringing up difficult subjects.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

Don Jones — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 00:43:47 -0000

Here's a few thoughts, in no particular order:

One issue here that Fred's post highlights is the perceived "slant" or emphasis of the two articles in question (which I read before Fred's post) as a result of the data presented. This is a grey area, because of the sources and uses of data, and because of the perception of slant, where different persons may view it differently.

That Fred is biased and defends his portfolio companies or his friend's company is obvious to anyone who reads his blog, or at least no less obvious than on TC, with your (and your writers') numerous non-arms-length relationships with the companies you cover or their competitors, as well as your many past statements to that effect. Writing provocative opinion posts to generate heat isn't just limited to Fred, nor is it limited to TC...

I'm not a journalist, though I am a regular blogger and it's not the end of the world if I'm corrected on something. My favorite saying is "We're here to learn", and probloggers or MSM types get things wrong all the time. Writing well-researched work on an almost daily deadline must be hard work, but the slant is bound to go wrong sometimes, and it is proper for there to be pushback on a regular basis.

There's a reason for fact checkers and editorial review at MSM outlets - they want to get it right as much as possible. Are there fact checkers and editorial review before the stories get posted on TC? What is your internal quality control? Have you ever posted how your operation deals with issues of fact and slant? Or is it every writer for himself?

Just saying that some of your writers come from MSM backgrounds doesn't cut it. People get busy, deadlines beckon, the rent needs to be paid, stories need to be filed, and standards fall. TC is one of the more visible online blogs, and I for one would like to see you support a conference or whatever to shine the light on journalistic standards for the challenges of daily reporting in the business blogging world.

Maybe TC has come a long way from the days when you reported things like PBWiki getting acquired by Yahoo (not!), but daily business blogging has a long way to go still...

I think Fred apologized for singling out the two writers, but stood by his analysis.

Re: Some More Thoughts On Pro Bloggers

michael arrington — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 00:12:23 -0000

glad to see such "good" conversation Fred.