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After I read your blog post this morning, I immediately wanted to reach out to let you know how seriously my colleagues and I at American Express take the comments you and others have shared.
I have already shared your original post and all the comments with my colleagues here on the small business Cards team.
As you correctly noted, “…fraud and increasing default rates makes for a very unpleasant business situation.” Having said that, please know that we are committed to the relationships we have with our Cardmembers.
Most important, I want you to know that we are indeed listening and working through the issues you and others have shared on A VC.
Marcy Shinder
VP, American Express OPEN Brand Management
marcy@openforum.com
- open up your fraud and detection programs so that the customer has a reasonable understanding of what he or she can expect, and plan accordingly. Arriving at a hotel and being declined is NOT an answer.
- make your credit line policies transparent - its absurd that a member can be limited or changed at will. if you extend credit - then communicate clearly about factors that impact fluctuation, discuss this with your client, and provide proper and reasonable notification - reducing a limit on a small business with no prior notification or policy understanding has 'material adverse effects' and is highly damaging.
- get of this 'no limit' bollox - it was a PR thing way back when. People can go and get 100k on a visa or MasterCard if they like - there is no cache to saying 'no limit' and then refusing a restaurant bill.
- develop an NFC solution or you will die.
- reward loyalty and years of membership properly
- stop obscene gouging on late payment issues. what you are basically saying is - pay late once and you are no longer a customer - if that's your policy then state it - watch people run and not walk.
I personally can't wait for technology to come along and squash you. As i know not one thing mentioned here by any of us will filter its way through that behemoth old economy customer care Juggernaut of yours, i thank you kindly for a torrid time in Jakarta and for my families inconvenience and wish you godspeed on your long walk of a short pier.
long local banks and NFC
The credit cardholder's bill of rights (which just passed the house last week) should help with this -- under the law, the card companies would have to notify you of changes to your account before they go into effect.
Seems like two-factor authentication would be a big help here, too.
We see it in different ways out here (I don't have an Amex card, btw). Yesterday I had some business to do in downtown Berkeley and planned to stop in one of the better pizzerias in the Bay Area, in a college town -- and it was out of business. You see that so much these days, solid businesses, that in normal times wouldn't ever close, or even in a normal recession would find some way through it -- they aren't getting through this one. Lots of businesses closing..
http://www.yelp.com/biz/arinell-pizza-berkeley
Anyway -- there must be a silver lining in here somewhere! :-)
how is the pizza in Berkeley?
i think there is a silver lining which is that after the forest fires, the trees grow back
I have used AmEx Gold Corp cards for my companies for over 30 years and have never encountered any real problems except for their inability to change the name of the "administrator" on the accounts --- new CFO takes about a year to get straight! No problems of any kind whatsoever.
On a personal basis --- a huge disaster about 10 years ago when I disputed a de minimous amount ($22) w/ AmEx (not a vendor) and they cancelled my account. They dropped me like a hot potato. We agreed to part company. This was during good times.
The magnitude of the disaffection demonstrated by this blog is incredible. I don't think you could piss off this many sharp and influential people with hate mail!
I suspect the credit card companies will be the next guys in the ditch --- can't wait for the ObamaKard. You use it and the bill goes to the top 1% earners in your neighborhood!
I agree with all the commenters on this post, and I agree that if someone comes up with a better way I'll jump all over it. We've been roughed up by a couple of the card companies, but AmEx has been the worst and I have cut all ties to AmEx forever.
Times are bad, I get that. But what do they say about friendship? Something about how you know whom your true friends are when time is bad. It's the same with service providers, and AmEx has shown that it is not a good partner when times are bad, so why should I give them my business when things improve? Only to have them whack me again some day? No thank you.
http://gioiapizzeria.com/
http://www.zacharys.com/
http://www.arizmendi-bakery.org/
When I lived in Oakland six years ago, my favorite pizza joint was Pizza Rustica in Montclair Village or Rockridge:
Pizza Rustica
http://www.caferustica.com/
Yelp: Pizza Rustica
http://www.yelp.com/biz/pizza-rustica-oakland-2
Warning: Parking in both Rockridge and Montclair Village can be challenging, allot time and patience.
I have zero plans to go back to relying on AMEX for personal or business transactions.
AmEx is the first (last?) system I've used that requires that passwords are shorter than 8 chars since...what...Windows 98?
Now that they've cancelled their free business class travel with any business class airline ticket, I'm pretty close to cancelling my accounts with them.
For a while Amex was routinely denying my charges because a $25 payment had not been properly applied on their end. Amex has been a pain for years and the recession is bringing out the worst in them.
Mark
LOL.
Perfect payment history and for no reason at all, big issues when using the Platinum card.
Like you said Fred, a swipe is a swipe and I'm only swiping a VISA these days.
Ciao Amex and good riddance.
Get your property insurance from USAA also.
USAA is like an old fashioned "mutual" in that you get back your share of profits on an annual basis. If I am not wrong, I get back about 30-35% of my total premium into a Subscriber Savings Account annually --- this at already low fees.
You gotta trust those Generals! LOL
I have no need for such a high limit and cannot imagine why they would grant such a limit but every 6 months I ask for more and they keep saying yes. My actual payment record (on time mind you not actually paying them) is just awful as I am the most absent minded payer in the world but I am making my assistant get better at it.
Their administration is flawless, their internet admin is complete and professional and their array of services is incredible. Plus, you can call someone 24/7 and get your questions answered.
Their points system is excellent and my family doesn't even now how to buy an airline ticket any more.
As a son of a retired soldier, I am sure that you qualify. You will be happy that you did.
Fuck them
https://www.usaa.com/inet/ent_utils/McStaticPag...
As an adult child of a USAA member, you are now eligible!
Come on now, you gotta try USAA. You know you want to. Do it for Dad!
Just joshing ya, Fred!
The people left with credit cards are the ones who need them, ie not exactly the most creditworthy.
The security of these transactions is awful, but heaven forbid we do anything to make it harder to use the cards.
happily Amex-free for 6 years after a horror story.
(the consumer protection is much worse for debit card holders - If you get a bogus charge on your credit card, you don't pay it, but good luck getting money back in your account after it's been taken out. Also, a problem with debit is the situations where the merchant needs to put a hold on an amount, like car rental or hotels.)
Amex has been successful holding on to its, albeit mythical, cache about "Membership having its privileges" but when it no longer does anything to hold it then, as you say, a swipe is a swipe. They are in many other businesses but if you take the desire to hold that card away, the rest will die soon after.
Now are the times for businesses to earn loyalty and word of mouth by being there for their best customers when others will not. A great chance for Amex...lost. Here was a chance to for them to be a finance company that did it better than the rest and supported a "member" list that must be superior.
If Amex is no longer THE credit card company then who are they? And if nobody cares then nobody will care about "what they want" anymore wither. Pity.
According to AMEX's risk management department, with whom I spent an hour on the phone with, the problem is accounts are linked by guarantor. Now, I too have a long history with Amex and never converted my business accounts to NOT be guaranteed by my personal credit as we grew. There was never a problem so I never thought about it. I am assuming you are in the same situation. If you filled out the app to sign up for the AMEX business card and provided your social, it is personally guaranteed.
The solution? Move your business accounts to be guaranteed by the business' credit. We filled out 2 forms with AMEX and provided 3 years of tax returns and the business accounts are now not guaranteed by my personal credit and we were assured that any issues going forward on one account will not cause problems on the other accounts.
NOTE: Only business with $1mil+ of revenue for 3 years will be accepted.
Hope this helps!
thank you
you'd think an amex customer service rep could have told me that!
Monday morning at 10AM, a day aftter my comment, my senior accountant notifies me that even though we have been on our "business credit" with AMEX for about a month. We were notified by a Senior Risk Manager at Amex that our credit line was being reduced from over 100k to 5k for one of my companies. Yes, 5K and it is effective within 15 days. This was because an automated risk analysis scan detected our new business account had a decrease in "gross profit".
We are current contesting this and the Risk Manager my senior accountant spoke with didn't have any details on why other than "your gross profit decreased last year". I responded with, how can you deduce Gross Profit from a tax return? Furthermore, our gross profit has increased year over year for the past 3 years!
Hopefully this story will turn out better :(
I also have been getting frequent calls on when I'm going to pay my bill. The irony of this is it's usually within 48 hours of the previous period close. To stop them harassing me 2-3 times a month, I now pre-pay my card down when it gets to a certain limit. PIA, but it's too much of a hassle to switch cards when so many of my vendors are tied to my Amex.
While they do have some exposure with my high balance, they are getting great fees from all the transactions and in 4 years, never have missed a payment. Should count for something, but we are all just numbers to them.
Apparently in South Africa they send a text to your phone if they think a charge is fraud, you can then text back if it is indeed OK..
i'd go for that if it was quick
"Analysts say the company, confronting soaring default rates on its cards, is trying to limit the damage to its own finances while cutting ahead of rivals in line to be paid back. The default rate on AmEx cards soared to 8.3% in January from 4.7% a year earlier, according to data from the trust that handles the company's consumer lending receivables."
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/09/news/amex.growt...
They don't want *any* added exposure or risk. Now, could they target at-risk customers in a better way? Probably. Do they have the time and ability to do so while the business is crashing down on them? Probably not.
It takes years to create a "loyal" customer and only 5 seconds to lose a loyal customer!
Am Ex is giving the post grad course in how to destroy loyal customer relationships.
Their travel service has always driven me nuts, too. After six times -- in a row -- of their Centurion extra-special travel experts informing me there were zero tickets from A to B, when kayak.com showed literally pages of options, I refused to call them ever again. Not to mention their obnoxious policy about repeating everything back twice, taking forever when I could do the same thing online in four minutes. I've heard "friend of a friend" rumors of their concierge service being helpful with odd requests in a pinch, but never heard such a story directly, and Twitter/Google pretty much fills that need these days anyway.
the whole point was to have better customer service.
but if that doens't exist then what is the point.
There are tons of snake oil salesmen out there perverting statistics who don't understand what they're selling to people who don't understand what they're buying. It's disgusting. And it's also a much greater burden on people who are at the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum, because they have no way to 'appeal' the problems. A poor credit rating or errors can prevent people from getting loans, getting a job, getting an apartment, all kinds of problems that related to these statistical models that might not even work!
While changing banks in Feb, we paid our Blue card 1 day late. The amount...$112. Like yours, all of my accounts were frozen. I received a call at my house, another at my office and an email informing me that there was a problem. I was in London on a trip at the time. When I called the 800# to see what was going on, they had already received the payment and things were put back right. Until I got an email from them informing me that my credit limit on that account was being lowered...to $3,500. The next month...another email, account limit reduced to...$1,100. They kicked us out. Our office supply bill, which was automatically put on this card is more than that each month.
As was the case with you, I called, spoke to all the nice people and our past history meant nothing. A very successful commercial real estate investor I work with has a saying that he got from his father, another successful real estate investor that goes something like, "The tennant you know and have a history with, even if that history involves late payments and issues is better than the one you don't know but might look good on paper".
I canceled all my cards but one which I switched from Platinum to Green solely to keep my points (more than 700k). For a no limit card I now have a Platinum Diners Club (great for int'l use and the MC tie in is great) and a Chase Visa replaced our "Blue Card" the next day. (Credit limit $34,000)
If the company keeps losing customers like us, they will be left with only those who can't go anywhere else or the ones who "look good on paper". Do you think that's what they want? Because that's exactly what they're going to get.
and not that different from what i experienced
Although I'm under no illusion that this will help, I wrote a letter to the CEO of AMex, copied Senator Chris Dodd, Congressman Henry Waxman, the BBB, Department of Consumer Affairs, the Attorneys General of NY and CA (I'm in CA). This is the last part of my letter if anybody wants to try as well:
"... Is this really your business model - play tricks with billing and potentially cripple the small business owner?
This is unacceptable. I am a tax-paying small business owner who relies on modest credit lines to maintain and grow my business. I am never late, have excellent credit, and now, because of the bad financial decisions made by you and other American Express senior executives – who have received government assistance, by the way – I am penalized. I appreciate you may be trying to dig out of a very deep financial deficit – but it won’t be at my expense.
I demand this be remedied in the following ways:
1. Remove the late fee of $38.00
2. Issue statement to me and all three credit bureaus rescinding late fee
3. Restore my line of credit to April 1, 2009 level"
Use it if helpful...
The old argument, I need a credit card because I can not rent a car is bogus. Debit cards are fine.
could create more jobs if we stopped using credit cards. American
Express will not create meaningful jobs. I am arguing that when you
borrow money, you become a slave to the lender. So if you use an
American Express card then you have to eat whatever kind of shit they
feed you. Everyone should stop complaining. If you pay cash there is
no third party involved. And yes I am arguing that if we stop running
deficits and stop borrowing money our economy will be stronger. The
only people who get hurt by not borrowing are the bankers.
That aside, I think you have to separate good credit use from bad credit use. People putting flat screen TVs on cards because they don't have the $ is one thing.
Using credit for a business, or using credit for education or for cash flow purposes, etc etc., is a whole different idea.
You may think that only Bankers benefit from borrowing, but how many people couldn't go to college or start business or make long-term investments in property without borrowing? Certainly they'd be hurt too?
another 3%-5% directly to the bottom line of the merchant. If you pay
by credit you are sending 3%-5% to American Express. I argue that
making merchants stronger is far more important than making American
Express stronger. And I will restate that it is a patriotic thing to
improve the profitability of your local merchant and not American
Express.
The only good use of credit in business is to buy plant and equipment
to expand and make more money. A bad use of credit is to use it to
falsely inflate earnings, or to mask underlying problems of a
business. This I argue is a majority of the use of credit in
business. For instance, the private equity firms loaded up firms with
debt to take out their profit while leaving a empty shell of a
business. This by the way is the next shoe to drop in the credit
crisis. In the next three years, term loans will need to be refinanced.
This flawed argument is the reason why College Educations cost more
than $20-$50k per year. Easy availability of credit is the main
reason why Universities are so inefficient. If credit becomes less
available, than the economy will adjust. As universities begin to
loose students, then they will have to adjust their prices to compete.
Universities are some of the least efficient institutions there are.
And do not get me started about the value of a college education. I
think way too many people place too much importance on College. Some
of the most impressive people I have ever met dropped out of college,
and conversely, some of the most inept I have met have advanced Ivy
League educations.
it feels like that is part of the story - Amex used to be a premium product; they would charge high fees; the type of merchant their loyal customers preferred had to accept Amex; Amex would reap the benefits of a fabulous brand. In going more mainstream and taking on more credit risk at a bad time they may have put themselves in the unenviable position of having to break the promises that came with the brand.
the 2% range is not crazy high - if you look at the cost of doing business with cash from your local bank, after you take into account the foregone interest from cash balances, and absurd fees, you're back up at 2% pretty quickly. Maintaining a branch infrastructure is an expensive proposition.
I was an earlier adopter of Internet banking with First Security and Netbank. They are not with us anymore. I'm not sure why, but that expensive model is sticky. Or maybe it just takes a little longer for old money habits to die, vs. say patterns of media consumption.
I'm like you...cash is king ALWAYS, but with car rentals, its another story.
Also, more importantly, my company does not provide corporate cards so this is why credit cards are required for me. I'm not going to shell out thousands in cash each week for travel.
When he went to buy a boat for a high five figure amount, the boat brokers told him that they would allow him to charge it on his card. To avoid the hassle involved with sending a wire, he decided to call Amex to make sure the purchase would be okay. He spoke to Platinum support and they saw his history and said "sure, no problem". A few days later they attempt to put the charge through and it says they need to call in. So they call Amex and they say that the charge isn't allowed without getting confirmation from his bank that he has the money to pay the bill -- which is a completely different answer than what he was told a few days before. The Amex rep said something like "did you confirm with a supervisor that the charge would be allowed?" at which point my friend said "seriously? Now I can't even believe what your Platinum support is telling me?" and proceeded to go through the bank confirmation process.
Although they did allow the charge to go through after 30 minutes of wrangling and bank confirmations, they added in a pretty hilarious caveat: he couldn't make another charge on his Amex until he went online and paid his bill for the boat. A day or two later he tried using his Amex on a small charge even though he hadn't paid the bill yet. It went through. Basically they didn't have their shit together on ANY front.
Really absurd.
I think consumer credit debt is the next big black hole (albeit a lot smaller than mortgages). Not surprising to hear of AmEx tighenting the screws in terms of identifying additional fee opportunities.
Best of luck wading through the quagmire.
As long as you are smart about using your credit card, they make more sense than debit cards. But I do agree that there are a large number of people who are not smart about using credit cards, and for those people a debit card might make more sense.
What this event, and these comments, makes me think is a plastic card with a number seems rather odd in todays world. Do other countries which use cell phones for payment have the same fraud rate? Are there other ways this could/should be done? Or is fraud simply fraud and we are stuck with this model?
little did i know, after 6 months, my contractors hit me with a $300,000 bill for various (non-existent) repairs and services. I complained to AMEX but they would have none of it. They insisted I pay them in full, despite the completely fraudulent claims. They turned my account over to a collections agency and started calling me at 3AM. Eventually, i paid.
I ended up suing the home improvements company and won. Of course, by then, they had declared bankruptcy, and all i ended up getting was a percentage of my legal fees.
The moral of this is to be extremely careful with credit cards. AMEX in particular is far from the "watchful good citizen" portrayed in their ads. But I am not sure Visa or MC would be so different. My personal solution is to keep a tight limit on charges.
Are you sure you were getting calls at 3am? That would be illegal and actionable (to the tune of $1k/call).
Don't think they're on Twitter either.
This conversation alone could lose them tens of thousands of dollars in future fees, even if just a handful of AVC readers read about everyone's troubles and decide to say bye-bye for good. I've actually been quite happy with my AMEX services over the years, but now I'm getting nervous seeing all this and would like to be reassured.
AMEX, chances are you have reasonable answers to some of the concerns. Worth your while to get in the mix and engage.
________________________________
and it happened on disqus!
Routinely denies my VERIZON BILL which I pay every month; charges at stores within half-mile of my house; etc.
Nightmare.
The only guys not doing this are Discover. I f*cking love them. I hope they get a ton more business from the disgusting way that AmEx, Citi, and Chase are treating their best customers.
Must be industry wide.
I'm not an Amex aficionado like some I know, but I liked their services & offerings. Got saved by baggage protection a few times. But at this point, I've been using the Visa more and more often...
I got cross with them and now I'm using other cards... too bad as the AmEx had the best cash back.
Similar reasons... unexpected payment failures and a curtailing of what was an "unlimited" spending limit when I took out the card. Amex was unable to look at my credit history or use of my other Amex card to set an appropriate limit. They actually wanted me to send them payslips and copies of bank statements - at which point I cut the card in half and sent it back.
Amex need to understand that there are lots of card companies out there that now provide premium services (travel, concierge, travel insurance, etc).
Isn't the idea of having uber-[insert hideously expensive metal here]-status that the "annual fraud charge" is pretty much included? i.e. customer service sorts out fraud issues post rather than pre-fraud? I thought that was one of the basic ideas of Amex.
Also, and more importantly, you'd think that if they're going to come up with great algorithms to process fraud, fees, charges, etc.- and I think it's a great idea that they have one - they could add a few customer service variables, the kind of thing that a supervisor would take into account (credit history, "seniority", amount charged, etc)
I'm wondering if it's not a sign of a temporary dip in customer service: companies have cut costs by adding technology, but the models might not be up to standard (yet). In my experience, it's happened only with financial institutions - others have really embraced technology in CS, leading to awesome service and consistency (especially important).
Time to start a new one
Hopefully we've riled them up at AmEx...these are the people who CAN pay their bills, who aren't over leveraged, who value customer service and just want to be able to buy things when they need without hassle. They are all bad. Bottom line. Amex is my favorite but clearly they need to change their tune. Fast.
Worst it ever got was when my brother was overseas and needed to pay for something in a pinch - I gave him the details and he did it online. I got an SMS message from my bank notifying me of an overseas charge.
I've never had an AmEx card, but I worked for a payments processing firm for 7 years. Probably 90% of our merchants didn't accept AmEx - Why? The extortionate merchant fees.
Why does anyone still use AmEx? Seems more trouble than its worth, Visa/MC are far better at delivering.
I'm loving the idea that I get a text from my bank or card issuer when I do a charge and I ok it in real time
Here in Vienna you can buy subway tickets via SMS, so I don't see why financial transactions and approval of such should be any different. In fact, we already authorize bank transfers via one-time codes sent via SMS.
The vision: a borderless bank with full mobile/online integration, an open payment gateway and strong fraud/security services. Paypal could have been that but they dropped the ball somewhere along the way.
Either there is some very, very bad experience data out there that Amex CC sees that we don't or there is a severe case of credit control paranoia within the credit control staff in CC. To me this is a senior management issue. Do they really understand what is going on to minimize losses (which is a pretty bad objective on its own) and what the ultimate long term cost due to the loss of clients like you and that hit on long term performance?
You are not the only big charger to realize that a swipe is a swipe. And I suspect that you have also come to see that Amex CC service establishment coverage is not as strong as it might like it to be in its competition with Visa, etc. It is a pain to need a second card with Amex to get comprehensive coverage. You are less likely to need a second card with Visa and its major competitors.
CC was a great division to work with. Under the leadership of George Waters It was focused on developing customer sensitive, credit control effective, profit enhancing policies. Now, a bunch of people have either lost the script or have taken a very, very fearful view about our financial future.
Perhaps a question to senior anagement or the Board might elicit a response.
I was in Jakarta 2 weeks ago trying to check in to my hotel - i have been a amex platinum cardholder for about 9 years.
So i have just got a off a punishing travel schedule through london, abu dhabi, and have had a nightmare at the JK airport (if you have been there you will know). i get to my hotel - behind huge security - bomb walls, 3 checkpoints going in, (i am staying in a bad area near the factories) - go to check in and Amex does not work. (yes i did call ahead with travel plans). Now when i travel to JK i usually reduce the plastic i carry - (i carry the amex, and a chase visa only) - of course my amex gets declined and we go through this ridiculous effort to call them, have the charge authorized and so on. It turns out that i was late on a payment on a jetblue amex that i dont use, and all the cards are cancelled. This includes my wife's, my fathers. my father is in greece, and now cant check out of his hotel with his card, my wife is in Cincinnati at dinner and has it declined in front of business associates. I cant speak to the appropriate resource until the following day (12 hour time difference in JK to EST). Of course no one can call up except me.
I managed to get this sorted the next day (used my chase card - no issues) - but then i realize there has been an interest rate adjustment, and my loyalty points have been suspended.
the rest as you can imagine is a total chaffe. I will never ever use american express for anything again.
ofcourse the bigger question is NFC and how quickly this technology can become ubiquitous thus completely disintermediating this outdated form of spending and borrowing.
When the feds let them charge 29% that was the beginning of the end. If the Fed stepped in and forced the rates to drop with the prime, ended the penalty rate for over the limit, and just enforced no charging until it's paid back down- we'd be a lot better off than bailing out the banks and mortgages.
I've been writing about this for a while- and it was central in my run for Congress: http://esrati.com/?p=518
Thanks for starting this discussion.
Btw- my biz line of credit with AmEx- canceled, my extended payment option- canceled, my payment amounts- increased.
Every month- it's a struggle, but unfortunately, it's still the best way to manage purchases.
Second, I predict this post will have more comments than any other post in your history. I've heard similar things about AmEx from my friends and so my guess is the whole world will use this thread to vent about it.
Their behavior is truly mind-boggling. OpenDNS just decided to get our first Visa/MC because of all the AmEx issues we've been having.
Added to that their security is incredibly lax - all my other cards have chip and pin requiring me to verify the transaction at the machine. I can buy a $500 airline ticket out of a machine with just a swipe - nothing else required.
Having said all that I have an Amex card as it gives me airmiles where it is taken and I have never had a problem at all with their customer services in 10 years. However I think they need to sort out how they treat their merchants - what good is a card that no-one takes?
After this they tried asking me for all kinds of personal information to prove my income (3 years of tax returns), etc. I flatly refused told them I would be happy to send our business bank statement (recently venture funded) and had to go through 3 levels of customer service before I they finally accepted that. Next time I think I'm skipping the hassle and going with someone else.
but in may case and many other cases, amex just screwed up and hurt their best customers and themselves
It tells me three things:
1. Credit card business cratering, so move over Swine Flu headlines -- this will be the next massive story -- it's priceless!
2. Creative destruction of this industry (w/some nudging from Washington) will open brand new ways of doing business (finally);
3. The folks who "get" that plastic card business is ONLY about customer service, will be new stars of this entrepreneurial goldmine.
Thanks Fred for making a place to gather everyone's stunning revelations on this very hot online topic.
Best -- Halley
We're still on hold lady! are you going to address concerns posted here? or you just popped up to rehearse your robotic corporate message?
Me? I DTMA'ed (borrowing Dan Savage's term) American Express - two years ago.
Last week I was in Colorado skiing and they said my AMEX declined. I was shocked. then i got to a computer to learn that AMEX had reduced my credit limit to more than half.. I felt like being CHEATED for all the loyalty all these years.
Seriously somethings up with AMEX.. i'm thinking of transferring everything to Chase.
It is totally unbelievable that under this current management they could not figure out that by being a real business partner to cardholders that have been with them for years is the way to go instead of the current harassment campaign and herd mentality of treating customers.
10 years ago it was a badge of pride to carry the American Express card, today it is just another plastic card in your wallet that reminds you that "membership" does not have any privileges.
My wife and I have five accounts and while we have not experienced a denial personally, I have noticed another canary in the coal mine.
American Express was one of the most egregious senders of paper junk mail. We rec'd literally hundreds of offers and for years we periodically would call and ask to be taken off their mailing list, but their policy was "all or nothing."
I hadn't noticed until I read your post, but now that I think about it, we have had a precipitous drop in our junk from Amex.
Maybe Amex is going green, but I kinda doubt it.
It is incredulous what is going on with AmEx. They are not the company I thought they were. I've used them for personal use for over 20 years and my own businesses for the past 5. I've also gotten my limits reduced and have been asked too many questions. It's like they never knew me. I can't tell you how many people I know who have their own negative AmEx experiences.
I agree, a swipe is a swipe is a swipe. There are only a limited amount of spaces in my wallet for credit cards and once you're gone, you're gone for good.
Last year, I stupidly crossed the border between Hong Kong and mainland China within any pocket money, so I went to an HSBC ATM in Shenzhen. Tried my debit card, which had worked fine in HK the day prior, and no go. Tried another VISA-branded card from a different bank, and it looks like once VISA shut me down for one card, it hit all of them. Luckily, I had a Mastercard and was able to get cash to continue on my journey.
When I got back to the US and told my bank (Commerce Bank) that I could have been stranded there despite my diligently letting them know I was going to be in China during that date range, they were exceptionally unsympathetic. Now I never travel without several different branded credit cards from a couple banks. They can't shut me all down at once, can they?
Managing the accounts of several hundred thousand card holders, at the individual, small business and corporate level is a significant challenge for any company.
As small business owners, we naturally come to expect a bespoke hand-held service from our vendors, conditioned by the constant support offered by 3rd party legal or accounting support for example. But across the network that AmEx is attempting to manage, a bespoke level of service, particularly for smaller businesses, is just unfeasible. So, they set up programs and incentives to try and offer the best possible service to those types of customers. Unfortunately, it is never going to be perfect for everyone, but in general I would argue that most customers find that their product serves its purpose well. The posts above are certainly not a fair representation.
I applaud AmEx for engaging in the conversation. Having worked with a few large companies as a consultant, I understand the challenge they feel in trying to hear and digest the views of their customers (and non-customers) - I am sure that this conversation will be invaluable for AmEx as they continue to evolve their small business offering.
It's like I said before, you know who your worthwhile partners are when times are bad, and Amex has shown itself to be a crappy partner. That's why I will never use Amex again.
Over here (look at left hand) i have attractive programs and incentives (loyatly points, unlimited spending, fraud protection - anything else?) - and over here (look at right hand) i have 'best possible service'. (concierge for plat user) - the problem is - they have lost the hinge that connects the two.
its nothing to do with bespoke - they are way beyond the 'learning and discovering' phase of this product - we are customers not evangelists.If they are still in the discovery phase then they should stop selling and start listening - but they are not - and we are paying a price for the uncoupling of a cohesive product and customer delivery strategy.
they would do good to go and study this type of thing:
http://www.slideshare.net/venturehacks/customer...
but you and i both know they wont.
to steve kane's point, i did pay late - i certainly learned my lesson. I fail to understand how they could rationalize that punishement for the crime - that is the issue that has my ticklers in a bunch.
It is refreshing to see Amex VP Marcy Shinder taking the helm on this one. I will be intrigued to see how things turn out.
A couple of months ago, I decided to pay off the balance on that card with another card for 0% finance charge, and ended up with a slight credit on that card. Last month after paying off that card, my TV was on the fritz, and Costco was having this MEGA deal on a plasma my husband and I wanted, so I charged it on that card to get the Costco points. Suddenly I get this email saying that they lowered my credit limit to 1 THOUSAND dollars, and denied my charge for the TV, even though I not only had a ZERO balance, but a 200 dollar credit. I have NEVER been late on a payment, and I NEVER pay the minimum balance, always at least double the minimum. I called Amex to find out what happened, I tell them "I have a 200 dollar CREDIT and you are denying my charge for this TV for less than 2K?" I even explained that once I had my tax return, I would pay it off the SECOND I got the check, and STILL they said no, the order was cancelled, and my limit was now 1K (when it was 23K not 3 MONTHS ago). The bitchy customer service rep said that they get a monthly statement from Experian that showed negative things on my report. I immediately ordered that report and saw NOTHING negative on there, even in the last year!? I (of course) immediately cancelled that card after being a customer for 8 years, and I have a completely new view of American Express. They are obviously treating their best customers badly with no reason other than the paranoia of our current overall economic state. Now they have forever lost yet another good customer.
They did just come through majorly when I got in an accident with a rental car, covered the cost of the repairs... HOWEVER, if you want to rely on their insurance for rental cars, make sure you pay your bill in FULL and you are up to date. I was almost out of the grace period, and if so the insurance would not have covered me.
But it did. Thanks Amex. The process was also pretty darn easy too.
Not my favorite company - but waaaay better than some.
jim
It started about 6 months back when, regardless of the fact that I have not had one late payment, they lowered the credit limit on my business platinum credit card. I learned that they've been doing reviews, though not sure what the trigger is, and reducing credit limits in 75% of those cases.
But lately, I've been problems more similar to yours. Over the past few months, I've been getting emails that my personal gold card is suspended because of my credit balance - though it's been less than half what I've typically spent over the previous months. When I called them about the recent gold card suspension, they pointed out the outstanding balance on the business credit card. Umm, isn't that the POINT of using the credit card and not the charge card -- the ability to maintain a balance? They also do collect finance charges!
The representative asked if I'd be making payment. Not WHEN I'd be making payment, but IF i'd be making payment - even though it was not yet due. I told them I'd pay it prior to the due date, as I always do. And they repeated what I promised then released the suspension on my gold card.
They never said it was potential fraudulent usage or a late payment, as may have been the case in your example. It was just some mystery algorithm that caused them to alienate a long time customer. ( I've been a "Member" since 1991.)
Apparently, they'd rather focus their efforts on customer acqusition than retention.
I don't keep a balance on the cards.
I avoid late fees by establishing an electronic payment from my bank account to the card about a week before the due date for an amount that will cover my minimum payment. I then have the credit card company draw the "pay in full" amount from my checking. This way if the payment gets messed up, I have already covered the minimum. If you pay the minimum early enough, the pay in full amount is reduced accordingly so you're not paying too much early.
I think debit cards are the biggest con in the banking business and see no need for one. You are simply completely unprotected. Many places enable cards to be swiped without a pin being entered. There's no fraud protection and the bank makes a turn on the money it takes out of your account, not to mention the excessive fees if there are overdrafts. I recommend having the mastercard/visa feature removed from your ATM card which will mean trying to reach your bank on the phone (nightmare) to have them disable the feature.
where there is smoke, there's fire
i don't have a credit line with amex. i pay off every bill at the end of the month.
and they've been messing with me and the gotham gal and my partners and their cards for no good reason
sure, some people use this thread to jump on the bandwagon
but there's a real issue here and if you don't see it, you aren't looking
All the others are people who do not fit any kind of profile of people making too little money buying too much house and then buying too much stuff on their cards. These are all the good customers, the ones that AmEx should want to keep in times like these, and instead they are making us mad and want to go away.
I also hope this leads to some new solutions, but the easiest one for me is to tell AmEx to jump in a lake, even if they did have someone show up here to try put perfume on the smelly problems.
believe me I'm thinking twice about them now.
I called the office of the president and got a much different response,They were cordial and did eberything they could to help me.
You just have got to be agressive with them as they are with you
Personally, I think their issues - while exacerbated by the current economic weakness - are indicative of a deeper and longer term problem that 'Anonymous Coward' highlighted in his comment. Companies that don't trust their customers are endemic of companies built on lousy infrastructure. Essentially, they can't trust themselves so they decide their customers can't be trusted either. I blogged about it this evening. http://bit.ly/zR6Eq
At some point they start to believe they are providing the value. In the old days, they were. These days, they're ultimately replaceable.
Your comment evidences a fundamental weakness in the credit card system, with credit being given to just about anyone at any point (over the past couple of years), companies making billions over it, and now those credit card companies are scrambling to save face by Draconian precautionary measures.
I think it's a price we all pay, but not after 26 years of prompt payments. No excuses on their part. Fix the damn algorithm and implement it better.
As a merchant, I have no desire for Amex given it's significantly higher commissions and as a consumer, I have no need for their product because my Visa works just as well 98% of the time. The other times, I'll use cash.
my own view is that HNW and strong cash flow small businesses are better served by a prepaid model in any event, with lower merchant fees and close to zero security risk.
knock-on question: given this thread, why is $AXP up 200% in last 2 months? sell, sell, sell.
I mean chances are they have access to the LA Times right?
We've all had the same problem with a lousy hotel room and probably a dozen similar attempts to give our money to a variety of merchants.
They are no longer a truly differentiated brand. I've been deeply disappointed by the treatment, low-level harassment, and level of service that I've received over the past few months. I don't have to hit the net to find people to commiserate with, I had this conversation last night with a friend, who initiated the conversation by griping, about how he had been treated by AMEX recently.
Big Ups to Marcy for figuring out how to effectively engage her customers via social media. But its going to take a fundamental reversal in their current modus operandi to fix this.
I think the more telling thing that one should take from this thread is not the issue of AMEX frustration but rather all lenders are being restrictive with credit. Smart businesses and individuals need to adjust to this new credit environment and find alternative measures that will allow them to function properly.
I have paid anything from $600 currently to $2000 pa for the card I hold and some of the benefits were great, but over time I realised that with other free concierge, ticket and insurance services that actually the best deal for me was a card that rewarded me with the one thing that we all work hard for - hard cash. To that end, I have moved from charge to Credit cards and only ones that pay cash back. In the same experience as Fred, My wife got denied in NY a spend on her card - only to be told we had never registered it. I kindly asked the advisor to check our previous months bills, all of them to see that she has been using it fine for so long....
Its just not joined up anymore - there previous USP of Membership Rewards and Customer Service have gone. I’m not sure what value there is at all in MR, and their customer service has varying success depending on many factors. The problem here is no longer unique and most certainly repeatable.
The other thing that has changed is 'pace of change'. I talk a lot about Pace of change to my customers. As consumers our expectations change rapidly - as organisations we are unable to match this pace and over time we will grow apart unless something can be done.
Amex will lose old customers, but also gain new ones as they find new markets and ways to service them. It’s good for us as consumers to change to and experience the grass on the other side.
A swipe is just a swipe until something goes wrong or its someonelse swiping with your details!
When asked about my perfect payment history and card membership for 33 years, as mentioned above, I was also told it does not matter. My employer was late one day with a payment therefore my personal American Express card is frozen. Then the American Express representative added insult to injury and went on to ask me if I wanted to pay my personal card right now. Perplexed, I queried “what are you talking about, the card is already paid”. Then he proceeds to tell me is not talking about my current bill but is asking about the bill for next month that is not due until the end of July.
Like the writer above and apparently many thousands more, I have had a long-standing relationship with American Express that was always outstanding until recently. They now come across as desperate, eager “loan sharks” and not the prestige company they used to be. Incidentally, the annual fee for all this “service” for a Platinum American Express is $350.