I ordered his book yesterday. I liked his Newsweek-column and the quotes I read here. Thanks for opening my eyes! ;)
gm
· 1 year ago
Do you really think this is true? What do Americans think of India? It's the country that is taking our jobs... It's a sleeping giant awakening (like China).... Most importantly, India is "them," not us.
Also, it must be said, a critical difference in the relations is that Israel and Brittain... They are "us," they are people like those who are in power, same race, same ancestry. It sounds racist, but it is true (and I am not a caucasian nor am I Jewish).
I don't see a big ol' brotherhgood with India happening in the next couple generations, sorry.
fredwilson
· 1 year ago
I feel a great kinship with India myself.
They are entrepreneurial, democratic, chaotic at times, but wonderful people
And they won't be taking our jobs for much longer
I think there are parts of the US that it may be less expensive to hire a skilled worker in dollars than parts of India
fred
Shripriya
· 1 year ago
I think the democratic thing is key. Yes, it is a messy democracy, but the fact that it is one should give people significant comfort (comfort that China will never be able to provide).
You just have to be in India for a couple of days to feel the entrepreneurial vibe - everyone wants to do something and they are thinking bigger and bigger. India may be their base, but their market is the world. It is wonderful to see this - the same atmosphere didn't exist in the 80s and 90s when I was growing up.
Amazing what a little deregulation mixed with democracy can do.
fredwilson
· 1 year ago
Shri
You might enjoy Zakaria's book. It's a very quick read. He talks a lot about what India did right in the past 15 years.
It's very inspiring
gregorylent
· 1 year ago
zakaria knows what to say, he is too smooth ... you compare the last fifteen years to any other asian country, well, ...
gregorylent
· 1 year ago
it will still take a half generation to get over innate dishonesty .... road work only began again in bangalore with the new government, no one to take bribes while there was no govt in power, and corporate customer service simply lives on lies, i am talking about big big companies ... and remember what you call democracy is still basically money and muscle here, to a different degree to that other funny democracy, usa
dlweinreb
· 1 year ago
I agree completely about how great they are, and I'm very happy to see that the poverty problem is finally moving in the right direction, at least for a few of them. Now that the Cold War nonsense is over, I hope the USA does form a closer relationship with India. But the relationships with Britain and with Israel are very, very deep and rooted in extremely strong emotions and history. I can't see India, or any country at all, forming that kind of bond.
gregorylent
· 1 year ago
india has a gift to give to the world ... it is not IT ... it is the concept of dharma ... they are as challenged by that as anybody else ... they sure have corporate mindset down... just took me four months (!) to exchange a faulty usb modem data card with a big telecom company whose name i won't mention but sounds a lot like the word reliance.
Jay
· 1 year ago
i think there is still significant lingering apprehension between the americans and the indians, dating back to the indian-russian alliance forged during the cold war. conditions are better, but by no means indicative of a "more than strategic" relationship.
A close relationship between the US and India may be inevitable in the private sector, or the slices of it that are sufficiently Westernized and attuned to classical free enterprise thinking. There is nonetheless a huge disconnect between this increasingly sophisticated slice of the private sector and public policy and governance. The phenomenal recent growth in the Indian economy and the resulting transformation in lifestyle (esp in urban areas) is positively influencing attitudes towards the imperfections and chaos that riddle Indian society but there is still a long way to go in terms of actual changes in ground realities. For example, Indians of 15 years ago may have resigned themselves to pothole-ridden roads; today the roads are just as pothole-ridden but the people have hope gleaming in their eye, 'This road WILL get better and we WILL be around to see it'.
Part of the problem is a generational dynamic, and I don't mean just the Cold War-era attitudes of the US that may be traditionally distrustful of India. Governments in power aren't always in tune with the urban exuberance that is sweeping India. The Indian establishment dates from India's socialist days is skilled in the arts of bureaucracy, corruption and the so called License Raj (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_Raj). Although I've noticed huge changes for the better in my recent visits to India, there are a lot of low-level inefficiencies in infrastructure and governance that can inflict serious injuries by a thousand cuts on someone who is not prepared for them.
I do think that a close alliance between Indian and the US, especially in the arena of free enterprise, would be hugely beneficial to both. India can take lessons in governance and infrastructure from the US, whereas the US can learn a thing or two from the entrepreneurial, risk-seeking ways of Indian culture that aren't necessarily inhibited by cold, hard logic.
Thanks for this post, Fred. I think you're going to be in for a great trip when you go to India at the end of this year.
Jim Eiden
· 1 year ago
What about Canada? I think you can say the same thing about the relationship between Canada and the US. Australia is also right in there. Australia went to Vietnam alongside the US, and partnered with the US in Iraq as well as Afghanistan.
Australia has been a staunch ally with US for decades.
fredwilson
· 1 year ago
That's all true
I was quoting Zakaria
And it was in a chapter about India
So that's the context of the quote
curmudgeonly troll
· 1 year ago
cool... which one of those 2 relationships is it going to be like?
i.e. are they going to drag us into wars, or are we going to drag them?
(somehow I have trouble seeing us commit militarily to India vs. Pakistan or China)
curmudgeonly troll
· 1 year ago
sure, why not? US is more like India every day... gaping economic divisions, corrupt elections decided arbitrarily by the courts, politicians pandering to sectarian divisions, power cuts, inability to maintain infrastructure or cope with natural disaster, overstressing the environment and natural resources...
gregorylent
· 1 year ago
:) this cannot be argued with .... and with the malls coming in the metros in india, and cars everywhere ... lol
mattmaroon
· 1 year ago
I sure hope so. India is the new China.
fakedjs
· 1 year ago
Yes, we both have soft power cultures. DId Spielberg bite on that Bollywood gig?
Antman
· 1 year ago
that relationship could be the very one that saves the U.S.
gregorylent
· 1 year ago
force-fed a story about them everyday in every newpaper i have ever read my entire life. i imagine it is what brainwashing targets feel if they can still remember something else. combine this with the high level of arrogance in nearly every male from that country i personally have met, i am fed up with the whole drama. and the arrogance i can understand, growing up with fear, and the social pressure to be a bad ass. there is no wonder to me that their history is like it is, given the slight possibliity that we do indeed create a bit of the reality we encounter. of course if you say that last one out loud regarding 11 sep in america, you are villified.
gregorylent
· 1 year ago
i have the read six letter word "israel" in the newspaper every day for my whole life and i am sick of it. every day!!! think about that. this is not a relationship, it is a disease. the largest recipient of foreign aid, a pissant little country in the middle east. why not south america, or latin america, something close by? naybe they really do control the money as conspiracy wackos insist. first thing obama does is run to their little meeting after his acceptance speech. something is wrong. and interesting that india is mentioned in this excerpt. living in india for many years makes anyone pro-palestinian. signs on hotels used to be seen, no israelis. why is that do you suppose? behaviour perhaps?
they are sixty years old now, it is time to grow up.
ok, said my piece. not politically correct, i know. that's life, it is non pc.
dlweinreb
· 1 year ago
Not PC, and not right, either. Obama, you may have noticed, wants to become president, and it would help him a lot to not alienate Jewish voters. There's a big overlap between American Jews and supporters of Israel (though not all Jews support Israel and not all supporters of Israel are Jewish). Israel is a very special country, allowing normal life for an ethnic group that has been persecuted terribly for many hundreds of years. (I hope that a Kurdistan comes into existence, and it sure would be great if the Roma ("Gypsies") got their own country although it's hard to imagine how that would happen.)
Israel is the only democracy in the area. They have been valuable allies in the areas of intelligence (in the sense of the CIA), military technology, etc. I hope you don't think that we should be lavishing this kind of attention on, say, Bolivia. Geographical proximity matters less and less these days.
Your statement "maybe they do control the money" reeks of anti-Semitism.
gregory
· 1 year ago
which semites are you referring to?
kid mercury
· 1 year ago
hahahahaha......anti-israel is NOT anti-semitism, and the banking conspiracy, which is true, is NOT a jewish conspiracy. that is disinfo designed to get you to discredit real conspiracy info.
israel is the only democracy in the area? LOL. a war state and a democracy cannot co-exist. israel, like the US, has a fascist type of government masquerading as a democracy.
as always, all modern truths begin with 9/11, and so people should look into mossad involvement in 9/11 (note i said mossad....i did not say jewish....two completely different things and the real racism is to equate anything related to israel, a rather wicked country, with judaism [which is not wicked])
Antman
· 1 year ago
gregorylent - it's not your words that reek of anti-semitism it is the anger behind them. I like and dislike many things, it is when anger penetrates my words that forces me to check myself.
So why does the state of Israel make you so angry?
gregorylent
· 1 year ago
force-fed a story about them everyday in every newpaper i have ever read my entire life. i imagine it is what brainwashing targets feel if they can still remember something else. combine this with the high level of arrogance in nearly every male from that country i personally have met, i am fed up with the whole drama. and the arrogance i can understand, growing up with fear, and the social pressure to be a bad ass. there is no wonder to me that their history is like it is, given the slight possibliity that we do indeed create a bit of the reality we encounter. of course if you say that last one out loud regarding 11 sep in america, you are villified.
All Comments
Also, it must be said, a critical difference in the relations is that Israel and Brittain... They are "us," they are people like those who are in power, same race, same ancestry. It sounds racist, but it is true (and I am not a caucasian nor am I Jewish).
I don't see a big ol' brotherhgood with India happening in the next couple generations, sorry.
They are entrepreneurial, democratic, chaotic at times, but wonderful people
And they won't be taking our jobs for much longer
I think there are parts of the US that it may be less expensive to hire a
skilled worker in dollars than parts of India
fred
You just have to be in India for a couple of days to feel the entrepreneurial vibe - everyone wants to do something and they are thinking bigger and bigger. India may be their base, but their market is the world. It is wonderful to see this - the same atmosphere didn't exist in the 80s and 90s when I was growing up.
Amazing what a little deregulation mixed with democracy can do.
You might enjoy Zakaria's book. It's a very quick read. He talks a lot
about what India did right in the past 15 years.
It's very inspiring
Yes!
A close relationship between the US and India may be inevitable in the private sector, or the slices of it that are sufficiently Westernized and attuned to classical free enterprise thinking. There is nonetheless a huge disconnect between this increasingly sophisticated slice of the private sector and public policy and governance. The phenomenal recent growth in the Indian economy and the resulting transformation in lifestyle (esp in urban areas) is positively influencing attitudes towards the imperfections and chaos that riddle Indian society but there is still a long way to go in terms of actual changes in ground realities. For example, Indians of 15 years ago may have resigned themselves to pothole-ridden roads; today the roads are just as pothole-ridden but the people have hope gleaming in their eye, 'This road WILL get better and we WILL be around to see it'.
Part of the problem is a generational dynamic, and I don't mean just the Cold War-era attitudes of the US that may be traditionally distrustful of India. Governments in power aren't always in tune with the urban exuberance that is sweeping India. The Indian establishment dates from India's socialist days is skilled in the arts of bureaucracy, corruption and the so called License Raj (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licence_Raj). Although I've noticed huge changes for the better in my recent visits to India, there are a lot of low-level inefficiencies in infrastructure and governance that can inflict serious injuries by a thousand cuts on someone who is not prepared for them.
I do think that a close alliance between Indian and the US, especially in the arena of free enterprise, would be hugely beneficial to both. India can take lessons in governance and infrastructure from the US, whereas the US can learn a thing or two from the entrepreneurial, risk-seeking ways of Indian culture that aren't necessarily inhibited by cold, hard logic.
Thanks for this post, Fred. I think you're going to be in for a great trip when you go to India at the end of this year.
Australia has been a staunch ally with US for decades.
I was quoting Zakaria
And it was in a chapter about India
So that's the context of the quote
i.e. are they going to drag us into wars, or are we going to drag them?
(somehow I have trouble seeing us commit militarily to India vs. Pakistan or China)
they are sixty years old now, it is time to grow up.
ok, said my piece. not politically correct, i know. that's life, it is non pc.
Israel is the only democracy in the area. They have been valuable allies in the areas of intelligence (in the sense of the CIA), military technology, etc. I hope you don't think that we should be lavishing this kind of attention on, say, Bolivia. Geographical proximity matters less and less these days.
Your statement "maybe they do control the money" reeks of anti-Semitism.
israel is the only democracy in the area? LOL. a war state and a democracy cannot co-exist. israel, like the US, has a fascist type of government masquerading as a democracy.
as always, all modern truths begin with 9/11, and so people should look into mossad involvement in 9/11 (note i said mossad....i did not say jewish....two completely different things and the real racism is to equate anything related to israel, a rather wicked country, with judaism [which is not wicked])
So why does the state of Israel make you so angry?